Dean Sage: 00:00

Hi. I'm Dean Sage.

Jack Kirven: 00:02

And I'm Jack Kerwin.

Dean Sage: 00:03

And this is Show Me Your Deck.

Jack Kirven: 00:05

A podcast where we explore the intersections of oracles and chakras.

Dean Sage: 00:09

Using our original decks to create new insights. So our very first official recording, I don't know if it'll be our first show or not, but here we are officially recording for the first time. Here

Jack Kirven: 00:22

we are. Yay. Officially.

Dean Sage: 00:24

We took only a year to come up with the format.

Jack Kirven: 00:27

3 years, 5 years, whatever, when the time is right.

Dean Sage: 00:30

It's here. It's here. Well, you bought some dice. I love I love the idea of randomness and and coincidence helping to guide us. So let's the to start the kind of intersections, let's get our first, sphere of thought, and let's find out what deck we're viewers we're gonna use.

Jack Kirven: 00:52

The deck of mine we're going to use is number 4. So that is going to be, of course, the most abstract of them, the intersections deck.

Dean Sage: 01:03

Oh, well, we do love the intersections deck.

Jack Kirven: 01:06

It's fun.

Dean Sage: 01:07

So if you are, unaware, Jack has 4 different decks based on a book that he wrote, which is amazing that you should all get. And, do you wanna just give a quick intro to the intersections deck?

Jack Kirven: 01:18

So the intersections deck looks at the the, well, the intersections between 2 chakras, where they touch. And in the book, that is what creates the content itself in terms of the professions and the haiku and all the observations. So this particular deck singles that concept out, so you can focus just on that part without being distracted by all the prose and poetry. So this is, just impressions.

Dean Sage: 01:45

Yeah. I love this deck because it does really creates a very influential sphere. I mean, if I if I chose every time, I would choose this deck as our first card. So let's have it. What's our first intersection?

Jack Kirven: 01:57

Oh, well, you know what? I have a die with 50 sites as well. So hold on. Let me

Dean Sage: 02:02

Oh, okay.

Jack Kirven: 02:03

Dice beside that as well. And if it comes up 50, then I'll let you pick 1 randomly. Okay. Okay, it's rolling. Number 7.

Dean Sage: 02:18

Oh, okay.

Jack Kirven: 02:20

Very nice. So that will be muladhara, touching, sahasara, root and crown, touching.

Dean Sage: 02:28

That's that's quite the intersection. So, in your system, you use different elements than people might be used to. So crown would be, sort of spirit universal spirit connection to the universe, and laddar would be root. It's usually associated with earth. In my deck, it's it's earth.

Dean Sage: 02:46

It's the kind of rooted symbol. So what are those connections in your system?

Jack Kirven: 02:51

They're the same. These, these 2 are not different from what is probably expected by most people. Muladhara is earth. Sahasara is Akasha, Aether, Crown, Space.

Dean Sage: 03:02

What color did you give it in your deck, Sarhasa.

Jack Kirven: 03:06

The normal ones, purple. So root is red and crown is purple as in nearly universal systems.

Dean Sage: 03:13

Yeah. I I used a a a purple for mine as well. Although, I tend to think of the 3rd eye as more of the violet kind of color, like the amethyst color. Whenever I'm working with amethyst, I always feel like it opens my 3rd eye a little bit more. But I think of the crown as being more like a clear, like a white light.

Jack Kirven: 03:31

Do that. They'll do they'll do red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple, white instead of red, orange, yellow, green, aqua, blue, purple. So Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Jack Kirven: 03:39

That's it's pretty interchangeable.

Dean Sage: 03:41

Yes. I just I like the idea of the white because it's sort of the clear, and then not in a Scientology way.

Jack Kirven: 03:47

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's also the concept of, you know, all colors of light coming together and creating white light. So it also is a completely valid system.

Dean Sage: 03:55

Well, so, initially, I think we're getting a little bit of an intersection here. So we have things coming together. I think you just said all colors coming together. I like that. Mhmm.

Dean Sage: 04:06

You know, we start from a very earthy red tone, and then we get toward, the purple or the clear kinda zone. So there's definitely something about coming together. I think, I think if we're to sort of take our first sphere, it's about a union. But it's about a union of things that are not necessarily opposite, but when they come together, are complete. That's kinda what I'm sensing from this.

Dean Sage: 04:29

Things things that are disparate but come together to make something complete.

Jack Kirven: 04:34

Yeah. That's what I was about to say, the idea that, 2 extremes still can overlap in the middle.

Dean Sage: 04:40

Okay. I like that.

Jack Kirven: 04:42

Earth coming together to touch.

Dean Sage: 04:43

I like that. So we need to draw 3 more cards, and we're gonna need to have things at different. So I think we need both of our decks for this. Yes. I think I think we need probably one of yours and 2 of mine.

Dean Sage: 05:02

So I'm gonna go ahead and and draw 2 of mine, and we're gonna put yours in the center. We're gonna put mine on the outside. So give me a second. Let's draw our cards here. When I draw, I kind of feel, like, a little buzzing in my head.

Dean Sage: 05:20

And when I get to the the right card, the buzzing kind of intensifies, and I feel like that's the that's the one that I'm supposed to choose. Magnetism. Could be something. It's

Jack Kirven: 05:34

coming together.

Dean Sage: 05:37

Alright. Let's start with yours. Which card did you draw?

Jack Kirven: 05:40

This is number 9, and this will be fire touching, excuse me, this will be metal touching fire. So this is I feel touching I do, savadhisthana touching Manipura. So this is how your emotions and sensations and instincts are affected by what you do.

Dean Sage: 05:58

Say the 2 I statements again. I feel.

Jack Kirven: 06:03

I do.

Dean Sage: 06:04

Okay. So there's a very sort of sort of below consciousness, like, not not subconscious, but, like, gut gut instinct, gut reaction.

Jack Kirven: 06:17

Yep. Instinct. Yep. Yep. Instinct.

Dean Sage: 06:19

Again, coming from the fact that our first intersection was root versus crown, and now we have some of the lower chakra energy entering our kind of discussion. So, what like, just immediately, what's your kind of thought on your card in this mix?

Jack Kirven: 06:37

Okay. So I'm looking My impression is that this is being aware of consequences. Mhmm. So you you had an impulse, you had an instinct, you

Dean Sage: 06:54

had an impulse, you had an instinct, you had a feeling

Jack Kirven: 06:55

or a sensation, and you acted upon it, and now there are consequences. How are you aware of the reverberations of what you're doing?

Dean Sage: 07:03

So the consequences of your actions, not necessarily the consequences of your feelings, or is it the consequences of your feelings as they became actions?

Jack Kirven: 07:12

Heaven and earth touch. It's where they both meet. Yes.

Dean Sage: 07:17

I I like this because our actions are very much influenced by our emotions, by our feelings. Mhmm. And we take a lot of actions based on feelings. In fact, most of our actions that we take are reactions, and they come from an emotional, standpoint. So we have, you know, a very almost bodily intelligence to how we move through the world, and it's primed in ways that sometimes we don't even realize.

Dean Sage: 07:52

And so if you have this moment of trying to, I think, literally bring your chakras into alignment, one of the big forces that works against that is the lower chakras because they're so involved in gut reactions and instincts and, you know, trauma, past trauma, you know, unhealed wounds. All of these things kind of create reactions that we don't even control at first, and we're already triggered before we even realize that it happened. So I'm kind of just

Jack Kirven: 08:21

find stability and safety. And these two cards for me alone have already pulled red, orange, and yellow. So that is the entirety of the lower chakras.

Dean Sage: 08:30

Yeah. Yeah. So we've got all all 3 lower chakras.

Jack Kirven: 08:33

And yet being and yet being pulled upward towards that purple. So here we are being mindful of our lower chakras while also remembering the crown on top.

Dean Sage: 08:41

Well, and I think it's, it's a good moment. Like, I don't like it when people are, like, don't trust your instincts or, you know, you know, you should be rational, not not, emotional. A lot of that is, you know, misogynistic in a way, and, you know, it it feeds into the patriarchy. But there is something to be said about allowing yourself to rise up through these sensations, through these these actions. And if we're talking about this as it's already happened.

Dean Sage: 09:14

So I think, okay. We've we've already done something. Maybe maybe it isn't, the best consequence. Maybe maybe there's, you know, reverberations from this action that we took based on our feelings. But if we're gonna integrate it, we have to we do have to understand it.

Dean Sage: 09:33

And in some ways, we might need to heal it, or we might need to work with it. So I think we'll

Jack Kirven: 09:38

Either way, we should elevate ourselves from it.

Dean Sage: 09:41

Exactly.

Jack Kirven: 09:42

So this is where we're reaching up towards that crown chakra despite all of these consequences and feelings and perhaps fear about instability. We can still strive towards that upward momentum.

Dean Sage: 09:54

Well and I think if you're listening to this, that, you know, we might be talking about something where, you've had a very emotional response to something. An action or words were said or or action was taken, and now you're sort of in the aftermath of that. And what this sort of, you know, intersection is looking at is just what you said. How do you move from the lower chakras, which are visceral, to an integration point where you are in stasis with those around you, maybe even with the person that that you have this interaction with, if this was a one to one type situation, or if it was a one to many, how do you kind of reach a stasis point, where you're neither lost nor subsumed, but you're also in, you know, in stasis, in in connection with others, kind of reaching that zen level almost.

Jack Kirven: 10:55

Mhmm. Yeah. And continue upward from there. You communicate appropriately and learn from the situation and and the people and their perspective, whoever's involved, so that you can become better for for whatever this this happening has been.

Dean Sage: 11:13

Well, I think the pivotal chakra that we haven't reached yet is the heart chakra.

Jack Kirven: 11:19

We have not.

Dean Sage: 11:19

And it'll be interesting because we definitely have the opportunity to reach that with one of my cards. So I think we're gonna try the first one here. Okay. My deck is an oracle deck. It's a one to 1 to the tarot.

Dean Sage: 11:31

So every card in my deck has a a a related deck in the tarot. So you can interpret it with your tarot knowledge. You can use the oracle statement itself. My system is also based on chakras, so each of the suits as you go up the deck, has a chakra alignment. So it's actually, what makes it really interesting to work with Jack's decks is that we both have these chakra systems, and they can kind of feed together and and intermix.

Dean Sage: 11:57

But here we go. Here's our first one. Today's rubble becomes tomorrow's gems.

Jack Kirven: 12:03

So Well, we just said that. Yes. This is,

Dean Sage: 12:07

this card I've named the renewal, but it's also known as the star card. It's a major arcana card. And for me, the color is sort of this, brilliant violet, which is, by the way, the crown chakra for my system. Yes.

Jack Kirven: 12:24

Yes. Remember, you

Dean Sage: 12:25

can grow from whatever this adversity is. It is not the end of your world or your life.

Jack Kirven: 12:26

Oh, no. Whatever this adversity is. It is not the end of your world or your life. Oh, no. I'm sorry.

Dean Sage: 12:30

I misspoke. This is not the star. I'm sorry. The star comes next. This is the tower.

Dean Sage: 12:32

Oh. Well, still, this is not the end. It

Jack Kirven: 12:35

will be better. Yes.

Dean Sage: 12:42

So if today's rubble becomes tomorrow's gems, so for me, this card kind of speaks to, like I said, a renewal. And I I just lied again. It's it is the star card. I'm overthinking myself.

Jack Kirven: 12:55

Yay.

Dean Sage: 12:55

Yay. I'm I'm really bad with the numbers of the Major Arcana. I never remember exactly which one's which. And I renamed them the reason I renamed them is because they had such a, patriarchal heteronormativity to them that I wanted them to kind of be genderless and fluid and not really tied to, you know, specific roles in society or things like that. So if I ever get confused

Jack Kirven: 13:19

concepts.

Dean Sage: 13:21

Yeah. Well, these are the, these are the, the concepts, the the the last series of, of the chakra of the crown chakra. So, in this sense, this is about refining rubble into gemstone. That's a very long process. It takes a lot of intensity and time.

Dean Sage: 13:43

But when you do it, you realize, you know, something greater from it. So I think kinda bringing that into what we were talking about, maybe you created a hot environment with your emotions. We we had fire. Right? You had fire and metal.

Jack Kirven: 13:59

Oh, yeah.

Dean Sage: 14:00

Fire and metal. Fire and metal. When we bring those two things together, we get molten, you know, metal that is malleable, but you have to be really careful with it because it will eat you.

Jack Kirven: 14:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Another way to think about this, in terms of rubble into gemstones, do you know what trincato is?

Dean Sage: 14:21

I do not.

Jack Kirven: 14:23

It is a, form of decoration they use in Barcelona in Spain. It was, I don't know if it was invented, but it was popularized by Gaudi. And that's when you take decorative tiles and you shatter them, and then you reassemble them. And he had to do that because his walls undulated. He didn't have flat walls with Oh.

Jack Kirven: 14:41

With, 90 degree angles. So if he wanted to put mosaic tiles for decoration, he had to first break those tiles. But he didn't necessarily put them back together like puzzle pieces. He could rearrange them. And so the idea here is that your life is not a flat wall.

Jack Kirven: 15:00

You don't necessarily meet right angles. You might have to bust some stuff, but when you put it back together, it can still be really unique and beautiful.

Dean Sage: 15:07

So it's interesting, because you're I think the reason I got confused with the star in the tower is that, the intersection that you came up with, the fire and metal intersection, is is kind of a moment of crisis in itself, you know, the way that we're kind of feeling that. So there's there is very much this kind of energy of a crisis point that's passed, and then then the aftermath of of what we're dealing with. Actually, there's, isn't there a a Japanese art of restoring broken items with

Jack Kirven: 15:41

Yes. Yes. And then you put it together with gold. Yeah. That's right.

Dean Sage: 15:44

So there's there's a lot of cultures, I think, have this idea about putting brokenness back together and the brokenness being more beautiful than the original.

Jack Kirven: 15:54

Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Dean Sage: 15:57

Alright. So we've got this incident. Something's occurred. Something's happened. Hot words, maybe, were spoken.

Dean Sage: 16:05

You know, the actions, The the fire in the metal of MET, and now we've got molten goop, you know, and we have to move forward from that. We have to to

Jack Kirven: 16:18

Make something beautiful from it anyway.

Dean Sage: 16:20

Yeah. Gems, of course, are intense pressure and heat inside the earth's core and crust and mantle, and, then they kind of come up, and are are then refined. But, you know, they're not pretty like we find them. When you go to the store, they're in a much more, earthy state.

Jack Kirven: 16:44

Yes. And even once they're polished up and cleaved and lit and put into precious metals, they still are full of what? Imperfections. Immanence and imperfections. So even your beautiful jewels, they're not perfect.

Dean Sage: 16:59

Well, what makes things beautiful in the case of, like, geodes really is the the contaminants, the the imperfections. You don't get the colors without them. Otherwise, you'd have perfect diamonds. Yep. And, diamonds are are wonderful, but, like, everything that I I like, I I like because it has the colors because they're beautiful.

Jack Kirven: 17:22

My favorite is, garnets and amethyst.

Dean Sage: 17:26

Garnets are nice. I like the weight of them. And I they're they're actually root chakra aligned, so good for today's reading as well. But I like the I like the the mass of them in my hand.

Jack Kirven: 17:43

You're just moving on to our second card. Show me your deck. Let me not go too far off the topic.

Dean Sage: 17:51

Yes. The heft of garnet.

Jack Kirven: 17:54

The heft of garnet.

Dean Sage: 17:56

Alright. Let's see what the second card from mine is. Oh, look at that. Another root card. Seeds sown with purpose, yield a greater harvest.

Dean Sage: 18:04

This is the 7 of seeds, so that equates to the 7 of pentacles in the tarot, so you can kinda take that as you will. For me, it really is, about the fact that when you're planting things, that when you plan and have purpose for what you're doing, you get better results from it. So putting seeds in a straight line is effective because it allows better irrigation and allows you to, raise the crops with the sufficient space around them. Really, you you give them the best opportunity for growth, and so your harvest becomes more bountiful because of it.

Jack Kirven: 18:44

So that's interesting. So we were just talking about something being broken down into smaller parts. And here we have a card about seeds, little itty bitty parts, and how when they're properly cared for, they grow into something bountiful. This flows right out of what you're already describing. So, alright, these experiences, whether they're stressful or not, are still, quote unquote, seeds that will grow into wisdom, actually.

Jack Kirven: 19:19

So I I would say that when you are planting those seeds, another reason it's efficient to put them in rows like that is because then you can identify the weeds.

Dean Sage: 19:30

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Jack Kirven: 19:32

When they are in rows, and evenly spaced, and you know exactly where you put each seed, then when something comes up that is not your seed, you can just snatch it right out.

Dean Sage: 19:43

I'm kind of you know, it's interesting. You have, you know, earth and then you have fire and metal, and there's very My

Jack Kirven: 19:54

next one is wood, and that's plants, and that's connectivity, and here it is in the seeds.

Dean Sage: 19:59

It's it's interesting.

Jack Kirven: 19:59

We're making our way up.

Dean Sage: 20:00

Yeah. It's it's interesting because in our in our alignments, you know, there's a little bit of difference. They make they make really curious things. So we none of us have yet pulled something from the heart chakra, but we've kind of

Jack Kirven: 20:12

There it is. It's peeping through the soil.

Dean Sage: 20:15

Yeah. We've gotten we've gotten all the way there. So we we have, you know, all of these different elements that are sort of coming together. And, again, if we take this to our original, sort of intersection, which is the root and the crown, you know, we are effectively rising up. But what's interesting is that, you know, we're rising up through very rooted means.

Dean Sage: 20:39

So rubble, you know, and gemstones are in the ground. You know, they're being churned and made and ground and broken. Seeds are little germinating pods that, you know, grow these massive plants or trees or, you know, whatever it is that they that they have within them, but it's all very rooted and grounded work. So I think what I'm hearing as we go through this is that the reason that you have the intersection of the crown and the root is that you almost need to sink down to go back up. So you need to get down to, like, a root safety.

Dean Sage: 21:18

So something happened that unnerved you, set you off, really un grounded you, and the second and third chakras are great at that. Guilt and shame run rampant through those chakras. So to have done something and then feel guilty or shameful about the actions that you took, or even guilty and shameful about the feelings that you had that that led you to take those actions, I think that, in this case, I'm hearing it's time to go back to the soil, back to the to the beginning, to the root. And you can ascend to the crown, but you've got to get back into alignment. And I think, mainly, you've gotta get back to safety.

Dean Sage: 22:05

Something about this situation made you unsafe.

Jack Kirven: 22:11

Yep. That makes perfect sense.

Dean Sage: 22:16

Well, we need to kinda cap this off. We need our final message. I I think it's probably one of your decks. Do you wanna roll the dice, or do you have a inclination as to which deck it needs to be?

Jack Kirven: 22:26

No. Let's let's find out what the, spirits have to say. So we're looking for 1 through 4.

Dean Sage: 22:33

Fell on the ground.

Jack Kirven: 22:35

And it still counts.

Dean Sage: 22:35

Well, we're

Jack Kirven: 22:35

trying to get back to the roots. Right? Oh, I'm just saying this is

Dean Sage: 22:37

a pretty deck running away. We're still at deck number 4, so

Jack Kirven: 22:41

we're gonna stay with the, the abstract. Our intersections deck. And let's see. Number 28.

Dean Sage: 22:57

Let's see. I think that's gonna land you in the heart chakra, isn't it?

Jack Kirven: 23:00

It is. Right in the middle of it. Here's yep. There it is. Green and yellow.

Jack Kirven: 23:05

So what we're looking at here is the way your connections with people are influenced by the actions that you take. This is Anahata touching Manipura. This is I love and I do. So coming right out of what we were already saying, you have these experiences, these conversations or actions. But if you're keeping them in the context of relationships and hearing what other people have to say about their experiences as well, then you can start growing together within your relationship, whether it's friendship or work or, you know, what have you.

Jack Kirven: 23:45

When when your tiles are broken, scrambled up, you can reassemble them. When you scatter the seeds, they can still grow. A lot of times, this growth happens specifically within the context of conversations. So one way you might look at this card when you have green and yellow together, in my system, this is wood and fire, this could quite literally be the way the sun shines upon the seeds. The way light nourishes relationships, the way your actions nourish your friendships.

Jack Kirven: 24:16

What are you doing and how does it impact the people that you're connected to?

Dean Sage: 24:20

Yeah. Fire is energy. I'm sorry. I'm forgetting its name. Is it a solar plexus?

Dean Sage: 24:27

Right? Solar plexus?

Jack Kirven: 24:28

Yes. Solar plexus. Yeah. Solar plexus touching heart.

Dean Sage: 24:32

You know, it's the center of your movement. It's your abdominal muscles. So fire is power. Fire is is the power within your cells, and then bringing it to, the wood in your system, that's that's photosynthesis. You know, that's take taking the fire of the sun and changing it into, the energy to live, to grow.

Jack Kirven: 24:57

And that and that energy is usually sugar. So you can make something sweet out of this.

Dean Sage: 25:02

Yes. I, find it interesting that, you know, we stayed in the low chakras, and we we did make our way to heart. We had a feeling that was coming, and it did. And you said I love for me, this is joy and grief, is the are the 2 kind of energies that surround this chakra. In my system, I talk about being balanced versus out of balance.

Dean Sage: 25:25

So you never don't have grief. You never only have joy. The that's not possible. When you're, you know, trying to seek joy, you end up with things like addiction because you're just constantly striving for the up. And, in my system, the heart chakra is storms.

Dean Sage: 25:44

So it's about riding the the kind of the middle ground between the updraft and the downdraft and not trying to get too high and not trying to get too low, but really try to achieve a a peaceful place. So I'm kind of thinking about our situation. You know, we talked about brokenness and bringing bringing things back together, and you kind of got to I love I think if we're talking about love here. I think this is a self love moment. I think for what I'm kind of hearing is I'm I'm hearing that the the action brought grief, so it really unbalanced your heart chakra and left you kind of roiling in the lower chakras.

Dean Sage: 26:23

And, you know, I think that's very common for a lot of us. Actions cause grief more than they cause joy because we get consumed by grief and or by, guilt and shame. And so

Jack Kirven: 26:37

And this also can be a call out or reminder for self care and grace. Mhmm. So, yes, you you have you have these various conflicts to whatever degrees of size and, intensity. But you have to give yourself space to, well, to forgive yourself and to forgive other people too.

Dean Sage: 27:03

Yeah. And I I think that's kind of what I'm hearing, is there there is an element of forgiveness, first of all, to yourself, but I think also, probably this interaction that you had was something that was more of a trigger, that was more of a deeply held, belief. Maybe it came from family. Maybe it came from a situation around you. But whatever it was, it sort of triggered a very deep, fiery kind of reaction, you know, something that that could melt metal, that could make, you know, something hard become something supple.

Dean Sage: 27:42

And it's left you in a place of grief, possibly for your actions. I think, though, you have to bring that back is that you did create molten metal out of this situation. So you have rubble that you can turn into a gem. You have the ability to change this. So the outcome isn't negative.

Dean Sage: 28:04

It did create, though, a moment of change. And moments of change can be moments of joy, but but they can have a lot of grief because you're also maybe ridding yourself of something or someone. You're creating a space where something used to be, and that space feels hollow right now. But you've got this molten metal that you are working and that you are not sort of left with this just hot nugget eating away at you, but you have the ability to reshape this situation into something more more, useful maybe, maybe more beautiful, maybe more useful are part of your self care even.

Jack Kirven: 28:47

And following off of what you just said about, an empty space where something was, That empty space where something was is now an open space with, you know, clear view up to the sky. Sky space, it's light pouring in. Water can get in. All sorts of stuff can get into this open space where something new can grow.

Dean Sage: 29:06

Those are I think those are the seeds we we were talking about with Vineyard.

Jack Kirven: 29:10

I think so. Yeah.

Dean Sage: 29:12

Like, you you open to the sky ready to receive the fire, ready to receive the the the light to grow. And, you know, maybe you're forming this molten metal into a plow, to tend to your garden.

Jack Kirven: 29:26

Oh my god. I was just about to say that. What if you what if you have a plow share here? What if this is a hoe? Because you always have to have a hoe.

Jack Kirven: 29:35

So this can be a tool. This is fashioning swords and tools and plowshares and all sorts of useful stuff.

Dean Sage: 29:42

I'm definitely hearing internally, though, that it's it's something that you're building or making something that you need in this moment. And I think, I think this is a reminder, to come back to, you know, yourself and, to really, you know, bring your your being into alignment around this heart moment. And I think that if you kind of sink below and root yourself and then allow yourself to feel love, self love, even though you feel guilt and shame about what happened, you know, you can grieve the space that you've created, and then you can feel the joy of the light and things coming down. And then, really, what's left is to maybe Grow. Well, to to to talk.

Jack Kirven: 30:37

Towards that space. Yeah.

Dean Sage: 30:38

To talk and connect because those are the the chakras that we we haven't really gotten to yet. But I don't think you can get there until you've created the self care, until you've made the garden, you know, in the space that was left. So I guess what I'm kinda hearing is you want to reach the crown. Right? You want to reach complete alignment.

Dean Sage: 30:59

You wanna you wanna have your chakras in alignment and balanced, but it's okay that that's not gonna happen now. A lot of what we've gotten has been very slow growth. Seeds don't immediately sprout into trees. They have to be tended. Molten metal doesn't immediately become hard and and, useful.

Dean Sage: 31:20

Gems don't get born in a day. So I think a lot of what I'm kind of just hearing on a whole level here is patience, self patience, and self love. Mhmm. This is a

Jack Kirven: 31:31

nice reminder. Be nice to yourself.

Dean Sage: 31:34

And give yourself the chance to grow.

Jack Kirven: 31:36

Yep. Mhmm. Beautiful.

Dean Sage: 31:39

Well, that is the end of our main section. If you'd like to stick around, we will be offering a a a membership level where you kind of hear our own personal take on things. But since this is one of our first few recordings, we're just gonna go ahead and launch into that, and let you get a sneak peek about what you could get by supporting our podcast. So, Jack, what do you think? Do you wanna go, or you want me to go first as far as how this kind of affects things personally?

Jack Kirven: 32:11

No. You can go first.

Dean Sage: 32:12

So I just recently ended my job. I didn't quit, and I wasn't fired. We kinda just made a decision to, terminate the position, to remove to to, remove the position. So I was I was in a place where I was doing a lot of change, a lot of transformation, very, very rough time because people don't do change very well. And so when you're the change leader, oftentimes, you're the bad guy most most days, because nobody wants to be, in a place of change.

Dean Sage: 32:46

So, I kind of view this as I would like to already be at the completion. I'd like to have that new job laid down. I'd like to have this podcast up and running. I'd like to have people buying and and, you know, getting use out of my deck and my book. You know, I'd I'd like to be complete.

Dean Sage: 33:04

But what I kind of know that this is telling me is that, you know, a lot of energy, fire went into the last year and a half of work that I did, and it ended up eliminating my position, that I got the company to a place where it made more sense for me not to be there, because it just wasn't suiting the needs of the company. But I had done so much work and spent so much effort, so I feel a lot of grief for the space that this has opened up. But I know that this is my reminder that that open space, like you said, is now a rich field, you know, that I can clear away the rubble of what I thought I was building and find new connections, and a lot of self care. You know, there's a lot of self healing that I need to do because it it wasn't the best environment. It was toxic, to say the to say the least, you know, and, it's it's odd because I do miss it now that it's gone.

Dean Sage: 34:10

Like, I do I do grieve it now that it's gone, and not just because I'm, you know, worried about money and things like that, but because it was a piece of my day and a piece of my life, and now it's over. And so I think, you know, even just allowing myself to feel grief for a situation that I'm actually happy to be out of, that I'm happy to have left. I think that's kind of an interesting dichotomy.

Jack Kirven: 34:37

I love it when stuff is accidentally appropriate. Appropriate AF.

Dean Sage: 34:42

Yes. Yes.

Jack Kirven: 34:45

I don't really know what I want to say. Maybe ask me a question or 2 and help

Dean Sage: 34:50

help help

Jack Kirven: 34:51

me move along in my head.

Dean Sage: 34:52

Have you had any experiences lately where you've had deep feelings, a deep sort of, you know, gut level reaction that caused you to do something or, you know, disconnect, reconnect? Did you have any kind of moment lately where you've, you know, had that sort of gut level reaction? Maybe you've had a trigger.

Jack Kirven: 35:14

Yes. Mine's also related to career. I have been finding myself so much in the root chakra that I've been wanting to claw out of it. Mhmm. I've been doing a lot to create stability for myself, and sometimes it feels tenuous.

Jack Kirven: 35:38

But I finally got to the point where I felt like I had to take action. I needed action. I really needed to take action. And as a result, 3 or 4 of my projects are finally making progress simultaneously. In terms of that being a shock to the system, what it means is I've had to commit to certain directions, you know?

Jack Kirven: 36:06

You can't be wishy washy forever. You finally have to decide what something's gonna be so that you can make strides toward it. And what it means is that I really am not gonna bother trying to grow the current business I have because there's no point. It by the time it grew, I would need to be putting my efforts elsewhere And it would be taking time away from the other stuff that I would prefer to do instead. So the way in which I've been trying to address it is to understand that the instability I now feel for having jumped up into the sunlight.

Jack Kirven: 36:45

It's cold up here. It's cold up here. Yeah. I

Dean Sage: 36:48

think you're experiencing a little bit of the highs of the storms from my system.

Jack Kirven: 36:53

Yeah. Well, what I'm also experiencing is a realization that my roots weren't as deep as I thought they were.

Dean Sage: 37:02

Just snatched my lip?

Jack Kirven: 37:03

I snatched. I got snatched. And it's like, I feel like my little plant is leaning over at a 60 degree angle. It's like, I need you to stand up, honey. Come back to 90 degrees.

Jack Kirven: 37:13

But I know that it was necessary because without action, without any fire, without any light, my seed was never gonna sprout. I was just gonna be sitting there in in the dirt. Well, you brought Stability is important, obviously, but if you just sit there in the dark forever, you just eventually kinda rot.

Dean Sage: 37:31

You brought up a good point that I think, you know, ties to kind of the the star card being the one that comes after the tower, that you do need to tear things down, and your time is one of those things that's incredibly valuable. I know because we've been working on this podcast for quite a long time, and part of the trouble has been that I have not had the time to really put into it. And I had to very carefully carve that time out, and us working together with our schedules is not always easy. Because when I'm free, you're not always free, and when you're free, I'm not always free. So I think, part of what you just said that kinda hit me was just time is such a valuable resource.

Dean Sage: 38:17

And when you put your time towards one thing, you are denying that time from other things. And

Jack Kirven: 38:24

Yeah.

Dean Sage: 38:24

If you want, you know, your energy to go towards things that are your passion, you need to find that time, and you're gonna have to take that time from somewhere. So something will be lost, when something is gained. There's only so many hours in the day.

Jack Kirven: 38:39

Yes. Yes. And recognizing that the transitions are almost never smooth. No. That's that's that's the stuff of sitcoms.

Jack Kirven: 38:50

I mean, there's just not gonna be these smooth, easy transitions from one situation to the next. And I'm just learning to have faith in the people that I work with, and that's where the, heart chakra comes back in my system from, you know, this idea of being in conversation with others. All of my projects involve collaborators. And that's been part of what my knee jerk reactions have been with okay. Now I'm starting to understand how my personal experience comes back to this reading.

Jack Kirven: 39:21

I did have a very knee jerk emotional moment with one of my collaborators. And, I finally had to be very, very short with him because he was not taking action and he was dragging everything down. I finally just had to say to him, I was like, look, if we have not made progress by this particular date, I'm going to put my focus somewhere else. If the next time we meet, you have not done your part of this, I'm out. And I could tell that made him mad, but it had to be done.

Jack Kirven: 39:51

And now everything's flowing forward and we're getting on great. And for about a week or 2 there, I was feeling all this angst about having been short with him, but it's what we both needed. I needed to express that. He needed the motivation to move, and now the project is beginning to flourish again. So for a little while there, I thought the whole project was gonna fall apart.

Jack Kirven: 40:13

But, that was my impatience that had me snapping. It was pretty mean tone. I have to say it was pretty mean. But Well, I

Dean Sage: 40:22

mean, it sounds like you had a emotional moment that drove an action. Emotions drove drove your action.

Jack Kirven: 40:29

Yep. But we have been communicating about it, and we still work together. We're still taking these actions. Our seeds are sprouting. And now we have a target date in mid March for our first presentation.

Jack Kirven: 40:45

So everything's moving right along now. It just needed that that moment. He had to break the tile. But And now we're reassembling them.

Dean Sage: 40:53

Put it back together. Yep. And even just to unplug, sometimes, you know, like you I think you mentioned you felt stuck in the earth. You know, one of the other ways that wood and fire meet is in the case of forest fires, which are natural as much as we don't like them. They're natural and necessary to the health of that forest over time, and it needs to be thinned.

Dean Sage: 41:22

It needs to it needs the soil needs to be, you know, reenriched. Otherwise, it'll just run out of nutrients and resources, and nothing will grow. It'll just

Jack Kirven: 41:32

be scraggly.

Dean Sage: 41:33

So If you want

Jack Kirven: 41:34

if you want a healthy garden or healthy forest, then, you know, the underbrush has to go sometimes.

Dean Sage: 41:39

You need the, you need the the cleansing and the clearing, and, fire is nature's natural clearing mechanism. Mhmm.

Jack Kirven: 41:50

So

Dean Sage: 41:51

Well, that's, I think that's that. I think we had a a nice little intersection there.

Jack Kirven: 41:58

Yes. This was fabulous. I loved it.

Dean Sage: 42:00

Alrighty. Where can we find you?

Jack Kirven: 42:04

You can find me at 49 haiku on Instagram. That's the best way to look for my content right now. So you can just head over there and at 49haiku.

Dean Sage: 42:15

And you can find me at deansagemedia.com, and you can find both of us at show your deck dot com. And until next time.